Agenda item
Crockers Folly, 23-24 Aberdeen Place, NW8 8JR
Minutes:
WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL LICENSING SUB-COMMITTEE No.1
(“The Committee”)
Thursday 3 March 2022
Membership: Councillor Matthew Green (Chairman)
Councillor Melvyn Caplan
Councillor Maggie Carman
Officer Support: Legal Advisor: Horatio Chance
Policy Officer: Kerry Simpkin
Committee Officer: Kisi Smith-Charlemagne
Presenting Officer: Ms Jessica Donovan
Application for a Premises Variation Licence in respect of Crockers Folly 23-24 Aberdeen Place London NW8 8JR – 21/09487/LIPV
Others Present also; Mr John Lisle of Hogan Lisle (Solicitor) Ms Elizabeth Freeman (Applicant) Mr Anil Drayan (Environmental Health) Mr Richard Brown (Citizens Advice Project) Mrs Nicola Bailey (Local Resident)
Premises
23-24 Aberdeen Place London NW8 8JR
Applicant
Crockers Folly Limited
Cumulative Impact Area
None
Special Consideration Zone
None
Ward
Regents Park
Summary of Application
The Sub-Committee has determined an application for a Variation of a Premises Licence under the Licensing Act 2003 (“The Act”). The Premises operates as a public house and has been licensed since 2010. The application seeks to amend Condition 27 to read: “All outside table and chairs shall be rendered unusable by 22:30 hours”. This will permit customers to sit on the entire Terrace until 22:30 hours. The Premises are located within the Regents Park Ward but do not fall within the West End Cumulative Impact Zone or Special Consideration Zone. Representations were received from the Metropolitan Police Service, Environmental Health Service and 14 local residents.
There is a resident count of 144.
Activities and Hours
Regulated Entertainment: Recorded Music (Basement and Ground Floor)
Monday to Thursday 10:00 to 23:30 Friday to Saturday 22:00 to 00:00 and Sunday 12:00 to 22:30 hours
Sundays before Bank Holidays 12:00 to 00:00. The hours for Regulated Entertainment may be extended from the end of permitted hours on New Year's Eve to the start of permitted hours on New Year's Day.
Late Night Refreshment: Indoors and Outdoors (Basement and Ground Floor)
Monday to Thursday 23:00 to 23:30 Friday to Saturday 23:00 to 00:00 and Sunday N/A
Seasonal variations/ Non-standard timings: Sundays before Bank Holidays 12:00 to 00:00. The hours for Late Night Refreshments may be extended from the end of permitted hours on New Year's Eve to the start of permitted hours on New Year's Day.
Sale by Retail of Alcohol: On and Off sales (Basement and Ground Floor)
Seasonal variations/ Non-standard timings: Sundays before Bank Holidays 12:00 to 00:00. The hours for the Sale by Retail of Alcohol may be extended from the end of permitted hours on New Year's Eve to the start of permitted hours on New Year's Day.
Opening Hours of the Premises (Basement and Ground Floor)
Monday to Thursday 10:00 to 23:30 hours Friday to Saturday 10:00 to 00:00 and Sunday 12:00 to 22:50 hours
Seasonal variations/ Non-standard timings: None
Proposed conditions being varied
Current Condition:
Condition 27: ‘All outside tables and chairs shall be rendered unusable by 21:00 hours and the external area to the left of the entrance door as you face the premise shall be rendered unusable by 19:00 hours each day.’
Proposed Condition:
Condition 27: ‘All outside table and chairs shall be rendered unusable by 22:30 hours.' This will permit customers to sit on the entire Terrace until 22:30.
Representations Received:
- PC Reaz Guerra - Metropolitan Police Service (withdrawn)
- Mr Anil Drayan - Environmental Health Service (EHS)
- 14 Local Residents
Summary of issues raised by objectors:
Concerns were raised on the grounds of increased Public Nuisance in the area. Residents also raised concerns regarding significant noise nuisance from the restaurant and bar due to tables outside in the street. It was noted that regular deliveries to the pub caused disturbances in the morning; followed by a rubbish pickup every day; and in the last 2 years motorbike there are takeaway pickups. It was felt that this was a residential area where lots of families with young children lived and the impact of an extended time for outside dining and drinking would mean even fewer undisturbed hours in the night for sleeping in what should be a quiet residential area.
Policy Position:
Policies HRS1 and RTN1 (A) apply under the City Council’s Statement of Licensing Policy (SLP).
SUBMISSIONS AND REASONS
The Presenting Officer Ms Jessica Donovan introduced the application to the Sub-Committee, she advised this was an application by the Applicant Crockers Folly Limited to vary a Premises Licence in respect of 23-24 Aberdeen Place London NW8 8JR which operates as a public house and has been licensed since 2010. The variation seeks the removal and modification of Condition 27 from the licence. The Premises are within the Regents Park Ward but not located within a Cumulative Impact Area or a Special Consideration Zone.
Mr John Lisle Solicitor appearing on behalf of the Applicant addressed the Sub-Committee, he advised that the Premise Licence was granted in 2014 and there were a number of objections which related to the front terrace. He explained that the terrace was split into two areas in from the Premises, the right-hand side operated until 21:00 and the left-hand side operated until 19:00. Mr Lisle said that the Applicant had made a number of applications over the years to increase the operating hours on the left-hand side, but these had been refused.
Mr Lisle stated that this application was somehow different as the Applicant now had the support of Mr Peter’s who lived next door to the Premises (left-hand side), who was in support of the application. Mr Lisle confirmed that due to the Covid-19 Pandemic the Premises had benefited from a public highway pavement licence on Cunningham Place for 14 seats operating until 22:30. He said that there had been no complaints regarding the pavement licence. Mr Lisle advised that the pavement licence was due to come to an end and the application before them was to have outside dinning for the entire terrace until 22:30.
Mr Lisle confirmed that there were 40 covers across the terrace with an additional 14 on Cunningham place. He stated that it was his belief that the use of the terrace until 22:30 would not increase noise or disturbance. Mr Lisle felt that the condition imposed on the licence in 2014 was restrictive and that the Applicant had demonstrated that they were a responsible operator who ran a well-managed Premises.
Mr Peters witness for the Applicant joined the hearing via the telephone, he advised the Sub-Committee that he had lived next door to the Premises (right-hand side) since 2005. He said regarding noise, he could recall only a few isolated incidences of noise and disturbance and only once for the use of the terrace. Mr Peters said the security staff outside the Premises acts as an added layer of protection and oversight.
The Sub-Committee sought further clarification as to why the terrace area had two different operating hours namely 19:00 for the left-hand side and 21:00 for the right-hand side. Mr Lisle stated that this had been imposed by the EHS. At this point Mr Anil Drayan from the EHS informed the Sub-Committee that Mr Peters had objected originally to the then application in 2014 therefore the licence was granted until 19:00 on the left-hand side. As there were no residents on the right-hand side 21:00 hours was granted by the Sub-Committee at that time.
The Sub-Committee sought clarification as to why it should consider granting the extension when previous applications had been refused and why the Applicant was sought to operate both sides of the terrace until 22:30 instead of 21:00, to bring both areas of the terrace to the same operating schedule. Mr Lisle responded to the queries advising that Mr Peters was now in support of the application. He said that the original applications were for a later hour and 19:00 was imposed. He said that the table and chairs licence had been operating until 22:30 with no complaints and therefore felt the terrace area could be brought inline.
The Sub-Committee sought clarification regarding the actions of patrons once the terrace area closed and the entire capacity of the Premises (inside and out). Mr Lisle responded to the queries advising that patrons were asked to leave and either went into the pub or finished drinks and left. He also confirmed a capacity of 110 (inside) and 40 (outside).
Mr Drayan, confirmed that EHS had maintained its objection to assist the Sub-Committee, provide any background information needed and answer any questions on conditions on the licence or any proposed measures to be put in place. He said that EH had no other comments to make on the application and that it was a matter for the Sub-Committee to determine. The Sub-Committee sought clarification on the assessments of the City Inspectors. Mr Drayan confirmed that the Premises had been on the radar due to initial complaints when the Premises opened in 2014, but there had been little complaints since other than a wedding function in 2019.
Mrs Nicola Bailey addressed the Sub-Committee, she advised that she was also representing the Wharncliffe Residents Association as their chairman Dr Steven Lipworth was unable to attend today’s hearing. Mrs Bailey stated that she has lived on Cunningham Place since 1979, she commented on the table and chairs licence on Cunningham Place saying that it was only problematic when there was event, cricket matches or when the weather is good, and people are sitting outside in the evening. Mrs Bailey also commented on the waste collection and delivery as it was a disturbance in the morning when the rubbish was put out for collection and when deliveries arrived at 05:00.
Mrs Baily advised that she objected to extending the outside hours because this is too late for a residential area where there are young families and older residents who need their sleep. She advised that she looked after her grandchildren on some school nights and as both her bedrooms directly overlook the Crocker's Folly and was affected by all noise generated from the Premises. Mrs Bailey also commented on the vulnerable residents in supported housing who were unlikely to complain. Mrs Bailey confirmed that she would be concerned if the right-hand side of the Premises would create more noise and smoking.
The Sub-Committee sought further clarification regarding a designated smoking area. Mr Lisle confirmed that the designated smoking area would be in the terrace area on the right-hand side.
Mr Richard Brown addressed the Sub-Committee, he advised that he was representing a number of the objectors on the application, namely: Jen Zibin (Whitten), Alan Roth, Stefanie Roth, Dafna Bonas, Anna Sinclair, Ms Zibin, Mr and Mrs Roth plan to participate remotely. Mr Brown said that it had been nosier outside the Premises due to the table and chairs licence, however his key point is that the current situation represented an acceptable balance. He confirmed that the Premises was located on a residential street with no other licensed premises. Mr Brown felt that granting a later terminal hour for the outside area’s risks upsetting this balance.
Providing some background Mr Brown advised that the condition in question was imposed on the premises licence when it was granted in 2014 and following concerns raised by residents (including Mr Peters) as to noise and nuisance which would arise from the use of the outside area should permission be granted for use later into the evening. An earlier time for the left-hand side of the terrace was imposed in recognition of its proximity to the next-door residential properties. He stated that the Applicant did not appeal the imposition of the condition but did subsequently apply to vary the licence to extend the times for use of the entire terrace to 22:00 and 23:00. Both applications were refused.
Mr Brown said that the reasons for refusal was relevant to the current application in that there is no explanation whether any noise attenuation work has taken place. Mr Brown stated that the representations submitted in respect of the application refer to the residential nature of the surrounding area and hence the disproportionate impact that outside noise later in the evening would
have. He also advised that the map to be found on the same page does not fully reflect the density of residential accommodation (or indeed families with children) in the vicinity.
Ms Jen Zibin (Whitten), addressed the Sub-Committee (via Teams), she stated that she objected to any extension of licensing hours. She advised that she was sympathetic to the challenges facing business owners over the last 18 months, however, she needed to object on grounds of public nuisance. Ms Zibin said that the current restrictions struck a fair balance between the commercial needs of Crockers and the needs of residents, many of whom were working families with school age children - 8 school age children alone on the west side of Cunningham Place, and a great many in the Wharncliffe estate).
Ms Zibin felt that the current licence had been occasionally breached, particularly when there are cricket matches on at Lords with many customers drinking on the street and pavements. She felt that residents were able to put up with this as it was occasional, and they wanted to support the Premises, however noise had disturbed her children’s sleep on several occasions. She felt that any amendment to extend the hours would increase the prospect of nuisance.
The Sub-Committee sought confirmation from the Applicant if it would consider an amendment to condition 16, increasing the number of SIA staff to two on days where cricket matches are played at Lords. Mr Lisle confirmed that the Applicant would be willing to amend condition 16 to two SIA staff on Lord cricket match days and condition 15 on Friday and Saturday.
Dr Roth and Mrs Roth addressed the Sub-Committee (via telephone) and advised that all the local residents had exercised good will in not reporting every breach of the licensing conditions, especially the right-hand side of the terrace after 21:00, but could not be policing the Premises every day. Dr Roth complimented the Premise on its quality of service. He said that the current hours for both the internal and specially to the external terrace area had proven to be an acceptable balance between noise/nuisance and commercial operation of the Premises. Dr Roth said that any increase in hours would disrupt the well-balanced operation and increase any potential incidences of disorder and drunkenly boisterous behaviour and raise public safety issues.
Ms Freeman addressed the Sub-Committee, she advised that she is not often at the Premises, but when she is she has observed patrons seating and being served by members of staff. Ms Freeman advised that smoking was currently taking place on the right-hand side of the Premises.
Mr Drayan outlined the process for reporting breaches and encouraging the Applicant and residents to meet regularly to address any issues that may arise. He also suggested that the designated smoking area should remain on the right-had side of the entrance within the terraced area. The Sub-Committee sought a new plan with a hatched area for smoking and confirmed that it would be a maximum of 10 people until 21:00. Mrs Bailey requested that the condition should also include members of staff.
Conclusion
The Sub-Committee realises that it is not bound by any previous Sub-Committee Decisions made and has a duty to consider each application on its individual merits and did so for the purposes of determining this application. The Premises are not located within the West End Cumulative Impact Zone or Special Consideration Zone so there is no presumption to refuse the application.
In reaching their decision, the Sub-Committee considered all the committee papers, supplementary submissions made by the Applicant, and the oral evidence given by all parties during the hearing in its determination of the matter.
The Sub-Committee noted that the style, nature and character of the Premises as described by the Applicant would be that of a Public House and if the application were granted with the additional hours for the outside terrace area the Premises would operate the same.
The Sub-Committee acknowledged the many heartfelt representations by local residents and how passionate those views came across when considering what impact an additional 90 minutes would have by patrons using the outside terrace and the prospect of nuisance occurring as clearly identified in the representations made by local residents.
The Sub-Committee concluded that the right balance has been struck here when considering the needs of local residents and the commercial needs of the Applicant and his ability to run his Premises in an efficient and effective manner that will lead to the promotion of the licensing objectives.
The Sub-Committee considered that the safeguards put in place by the extensive use of conditions it has imposed on the Premises Licence would mitigate the concerns raised by local residents when it came to noise emanating from the Premises, smoking, dispersal of customers which in turn would have the desired effect of promoting the public nuisance licensing objective.
The Sub-Committee considered that the area was residential in nature where lots of families with young children lived and the impact of an extended time for outside dining and drinking would mean even fewer undisturbed hours in the night for sleeping in what should be a quiet residential area.
The Sub-Committee decided to grant the variation by amending Condition 27 so that the terminal hour for both sides of the terrace terminated at 21:00 hours so that both sides were streamlined.
The Sub-Committee considered that the conditions imposed on the premises licence were appropriate and would ensure that the four licensing objectives were promoted.
The Sub-Committee decided that the Applicant had provided valid reasons as to why the granting of the application would promote the licensing objectives.
Having carefully considered the committee papers and the submissions made by all the parties, both orally and in writing, the Sub-Committee has decided to Grant the Application, after taking into account all the individual circumstances of this case and the promotion of the four licensing objectives:
1. To grant permission to modify Condition 27 on the Premises Licence so that it now reads “All outside table and chairs shall be rendered unusable by 21:00 hours” and specified below and renumbered as Condition 23.
2. That Conditions 15 and 16 are hereby modified in that there shall be a minimum of 2 SIA licensed door supervisors as opposed to just one as specified below and renumbered as Conditions 11 and 12.
3. That the varied licence is subject to any relevant mandatory conditions.
4. That the existing conditions on the licence shall apply in all respects except in so far as they are varied by this Decision.
5. That the varied licence is subject to the following additional conditions and imposed by the Committee which are considered appropriate and proportionate to promote the licensing objectives.
Conditions imposed by the Committee after a licensing hearing
6. No deliveries to the premises shall take place between 17:00 and 09:00 on the following day.
7. Rubbish to be collected during the usual City of Westminster rubbish collection hours.
8. (a) The premises shall install and maintain a comprehensive CCTV system as per the minimum requirements of the Westminster Police Licensing Team.
(b) All entry and exit points will be covered enabling frontal identification of every person entering in any light condition.
(c) The CCTV system shall continually record whilst the premises is open for licensable activities and during all times when customers remain on the premises and will include the external area immediately outside the premises entrance.
(d) All recordings shall be stored for a minimum period of 31 days with date and time stamping.
(e) Viewing of recordings shall be made available immediately upon the request of Police or authorised officer throughout the entire 31-day period.
9. A staff member from the premises who is conversant with the operation of the CCTV system shall be on the premises at all times when the premises are open to the public. This staff member shall be able to arrange for Police to view recent data or footage with the absolute minimum of delay when requested.
10. An incident log shall be kept for the premises, and made available on request to an authorised officer of the City Council or the Police, which will record the following:
(a) all crimes reported to the venue;
(b) any complaints received regarding crime and disorder;
(c) any incidents of disorder;
(d) any faults in the CCTV system;
(e) any visit by a relevant authority or emergency service.
11. A minimum of 2 SIA licensed door supervisors shall be on duty at the entrance of the premises from 20:00 hours whilst it is open for business on Friday and Saturday. SIA licences worn by door staff shall be on display at all times, carried within yellow high visibility arm bands.
12. A minimum of 2 SIA licensed door supervisors shall be on duty at the entrance of the premises during the hours of licensable activity on Lord's Cricket Ground match days.
13. A Challenge 21 proof of age scheme shall be operated at the premises where the only acceptable forms of identification are recognised photographic identification cards, such as a driving licence, passport or proof of age card with the PASS Hologram.
14. Substantial food and non-intoxicating beverages, including drinking water, shall be available in all parts of the premises where alcohol is sold or supplied for consumption on the premises.
15. No noise shall emanate from the premises nor vibration be transmitted through the structure of the premises which gives rise to a nuisance.
16. Loudspeakers shall not be located in the entrance lobby or outside the premises building.
17. All windows and external doors shall be kept closed after 21:00 hours, or at any time when regulated entertainment takes place, except for the immediate access and egress of persons.
18. A sound limiting device located in a separate and remote lockable cabinet from the volume control shall be fitted to any musical amplification system and set at a level determined by and to the satisfaction of an authorised officer of the Environmental Health Service to ensure that no noise nuisance is caused to local residents. The operational panel of the noise limiter shall then be secured to the satisfaction of officer from the Environmental Health Service. The keys securing the noise limiter cabinet shall be held by the licence holder or authorised manager only, and shall not be accessed by any other person. The limiter shall not be altered without prior agreement with the Environmental Health Service.
19. Alcohol consumed outside the premises building shall only be consumed by patrons seated at tables.
20. After 21:00 hours patrons permitted to temporarily leave and then re-enter the premises, e.g.to smoke, shall not be permitted to take drinks or glass containers with them.
21. Notices shall be prominently displayed at all exits and all areas used for smoking requesting patrons to respect the needs of local residents and businesses and leave the area quietly.
22. After 21:00 hours staff and patrons permitted to temporarily leave and then re-enter the premises, e.g. to smoke, shall be limited to 10 persons at any one time.
23. All outside table and chairs shall be rendered unusable by 21:00 hours.
24. All waste shall be properly presented and placed out for collection no earlier than 30 minutes before the scheduled collection times.
25. No waste or recyclable materials, including bottles, shall be moved, removed or placed in outside areas between 21.00 hours and 08.00 hours.
26. The premises licence holder shall ensure that any patrons drinking and/or smoking outside the premises do so in an orderly manner and are supervised by staff so as to ensure that there is no public nuisance or obstruction of the public highway.
27. There shall be no striptease or nudity, and all persons shall be decently attired at all times, except when the premises are operating under the authority of a Sexual Entertainment Venue licence.
28. The number of persons accommodated at any one time (excluding staff) shall not exceed 150 with a maximum of 40 in the external areas.
29. During the hours of operation of the premises, the licence holder shall ensure sufficient measures are in place to remove and prevent litter or waste arising or accumulating from customers in the area immediately outside the premises, and that this area shall be swept and or washed, and litter and sweepings collected and stored in accordance with the approved refuse storage arrangements by close of business.
30. Flashing or particularly bright lights on or outside the premises shall not cause a nuisance to nearby properties, save insofar as they are necessary for the prevention of crime.
31. Notices shall be prominently displayed at any area used for smoking requesting patrons to respect the needs of local residents and use the area quietly.
32. A direct telephone number for the manager at the premises shall be publicly available at all times the premises is open. This telephone number is to be made available to residents and businesses in the vicinity.
33. No fumes, steam or odours shall be emitted from the licensed premises so as to cause a nuisance to any persons living or carrying on business in the area where the premises are situated.
34. The hours for Regulated Entertainment and Sale of Alcohol may be extended from the end of permitted hours on New Year's Eve to the start of permitted hours on New Year's Day.
35. Late Night refreshment shall be permitted from 23:00 on New Year's Eve until 05:00 on New Year’s Day.
This is the Full Decision of the Licensing Sub-Committee which takes effect forthwith.
The Licensing Sub-Committee
3 March 2022
Supporting documents:
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LSC Report - Crockers Folly_Redacted, item 2.
PDF 7 MB - Restricted enclosure View the reasons why document 2./2 is restricted
- Restricted enclosure View the reasons why document 2./3 is restricted
- Restricted enclosure View the reasons why document 2./4 is restricted
- Restricted enclosure View the reasons why document 2./5 is restricted