Agenda item

Ward CIA* SCZ**	Site Name & Address	Application Type	Licensing Reference No.
Knightsbridge and Belgravia   *  None   ** None	The Plumber’s Arms Public House 14 Lower Belgrave Street SW1W OLN	Premises Licence Variation	22/05341/LIPV
*Cumulative Impact Area ** Special Consideration Zone

 

WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL LICENSING SUB-COMMITTEE NO. 2

(“The Committee”)

 

Thursday 28 July 2022

 

Membership:           Councillor Maggie Carman (Chair) Councillor Iman Less and Councillor Jacqui Wilkinson

 

Officer Support:       Presenting Officer: Roxsana Haq

                                Legal Advisor: Horatio Chance

                                Policy Officer: Aaron Hardy

                                Committee Officer: Jack Robinson-Young

 

Application for a Variation of Premises Licence - The Plumbers Arms Public House 14 Lower Belgrave Street London SW1W 0LN 22/05341/LIPV

 

Full Decision

 

Other parties Present: Piers Warne (TLT Solicitors) acting on behalf of the Premises Licence Holder Spirit Pub Company (Services) Limited, Philip Lee Ashby (General Manager) Ashley Coombs (Area Manager) Environmental Health Service (Dave Nevitt) Richard Brown (Westminster Licensing Project) Lydia Del Maestro (Local Resident) and Robert Del Maestro

Premises

 

14 Lower Belgrave Street

LONDON

SW1W OLN

 

Premises Licence Holder

 

Spirit Pub Company (Services) Limited

 

Activities and Hours

 

As per the premises licence save for the variations applied for.

 

Case Summary

 

The Sub-Committee has determined an application for a Variation of a Premises Licence under the Licensing Act 2003 (“The Act”). The Premises are a Public House situate within the Knightsbridge and Belgravia Ward. Neither the West End Cumulative Impact Zone nor Special Consideration Zone apply. Since publication of the report the Premises Licence Holder (“PLH”) Spirit Pub Company (Services) Limited has produced a front area outside management plan which was considered by the Sub-Committee. There is no policy presumption to refuse the application, so the application will be considered on its individual merits and the promotion of the licensing objectives. The Premises have been licensed since 2005 and are currently under licence reference 19/07039/LIPDPS.

 

The PLH wishes to vary the licence as follows: -

 

To remove the following conditions:

 

Condition 16

 

“After 21:00 hours, patrons permitted to temporarily leave and then re-enter the premises e.g., to smoke, shall not be permitted to take drinks or glass containers with them.”

 

Condition 17

 

“An SIA licensed door supervisor, wearing a high visibility jacket or vest, shall be on duty at the premises after 17:00 hours on Thursday and Friday evenings, and at other times on a risked assessed basis when customers are drinking outside.

The door supervisors’ duties shall include monitoring the behaviour of customers outside the premises and ensuring that the pavement remains clear for pedestrians.”

 

To be amended to:

 

“After 22:00 hours, patrons permitted to temporarily leave and then re-enter the premises e.g., to smoke, shall not be permitted to take drinks or glass containers with them.”

 

“A risk assessment will be undertaken when customers are drinking outside. If identified via the risk assessment a licensed door supervisor will be on duty on Thursday and Friday evenings, door supervisor’s duties shall include monitoring the

behaviour of customers outside the premises and ensuring that the pavement remains clear for pedestrians.”

 

There is a resident count of 84.

 

Representations Received

 

·       Environmental Health Service (Dave Nevitt)

·       Lydia Del Masetro 18 Lower Belgrave Street SW1W OLN

·       Christina Brendle 31 Lower Belgrave Street SW1W OLS

·       Mrs Roberta Drummond 33 Lower Belgrave Street SW1W,OLS

·       Mrs Mitra Soroush 1 Belgrave Yard London SW1

 

Summary of representations

 

·       EHS state representation is made in relation to the application, as the proposals are likely to increase the risk of Public Nuisance.

·       I am writing as Lydia Del Maestro, freehold owner of 18 Lower Belgrave Street, SW1W0LN. I have fought hard to have a restriction with the pub' s customers to drink outside only until 9PM . Unfortunately, I have been told just now 162 that the pub has applied for an extension for drinks to be extended outside till 10pm. I have not been told beforehand so wish you will consider my plea in time to oppose this application. One must not forget that there are families with young children living in the street and not to forget elderly people who wish to have a peaceful early sleep.

·       Lower Belgrave street is mostly a residential area. Therefore, by early evening the loud noise emanating from the pub’s patrons outside are invasive and disturb the privacy of the local residents. Even though there is a guard to monitor the patrons outside, he or she can do little to moderate their noise levels. Extending the outside drinking to 10pm will exacerbate this situation and result in public nuisance.

·       I am an elderly lady living next door to the pub and the loud noise from the pub’s patrons (laughter, shouting) after 9pm will affect me adversely and disturb my sleep. And also, when I have my grandchildren staying overnight the noise levels will disturb them equally. The likely effect of this would be an increase in noise from i) customers drinking outside later in the evening; and ii) customers drinking in greater numbers and in a less controlled manner due to the deletion of the SIA requirement. The ensuing noise would cause a nuisance.

·       I understand the pub has its own commercial objectives, however, they need to balance this with respect for the mental well-being of residents living in proximity to their business. And I fear that an extension to 10pm will result in the public nuisance I experienced in the past, returning.

·       We would like to object to the proposed amendment. We are residents living in the street, and we have children sleeping at the front of the house, so the delay to 22.00 is unacceptable. Furthermore, the Policeman in high visibility jacket has been very effective in limiting the noise to the residents, and we wish him to continue his duties. Before the policeman was installed, pub customers were too noisy, and invading the pavement and the surrounding areas.

·       The main entrance to my property, 1 Belgrave Yard, is right beside the pub where the punters stand and drink and smoke and leave plastic cups and cigarette butts behind! Even with the current security on patrol, some drinkers loiter outside the only access way to my property and block my entrance. On occasions that I have had to ask them to move out of my access, they have reacted unpleasantly. I fear without the patrol, the situation would be even worse. I do not wish to have interaction with drinkers who shall we say may be 'jolly'. It is also unpleasant to have to move through their cigarette smoke. At least the patrol can keep them clear of my access. And I would only need to interact with the patrol as opposed with the punters.

 

 

 

Policy Considerations

 

HRS1

 

A.       Applications within the core hours set out below in this policy will

generally be granted for the relevant premises uses, subject to not

being contrary to other policies in the Statement of Licensing Policy.

 

B.       Applications for hours outside the core hours set out in Clause C

will be considered on their merits, subject to other relevant policies,

and with particular regard to the following:

 

1. The demonstration of compliance in the requirements of policies

CD1, PS1, PN1 and CH1 associated with the likelihood of the effect

of the grant of a licence for later or earlier hours on crime and

disorder, public safety, public nuisance and the protection of children

from harm.

 

PB1 (A)

 

A.       Applications outside the West End Cumulative Zone will generally

be granted subject to: 1. The application meeting the requirements of

policies CD1, PS1, PN1 and CH1. 2. The hours for licensable

activities being within the council’s Core Hours Policy HRS1. 3. The

operation of any delivery services for alcohol and/or latenight

refreshment meeting the council’s Ancillary Delivery of Alcohol

and/or Late-Night Refreshment Policy DEL1. 4. The applicant has

taken account of the Special Consideration Zones policy SCZ1 if the

premises are located within a designated zone. 5. The application

and operation of the venue meet the definition of a Public House or

Bar in Clause D.

 

D.       For the purposes of this policy a Public House or Bar is defined as

a premises, or part of a premises that’s primary use is the sale or

supply of alcohol for consumption on those premises and/or for

consumption off the premises for consumption outside the venue.

 

 

SUBMISSIONS AND REASONS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ms Roxana Haq the Presenting Officer outlined the application to the Sub

Committee. She advised that this was an application for a variation of a

Premises licence in respect of The Plumber’s Arms Public House, 14 Lower

Belgrave Street, London SW1W 0LN. The application has been made by

The Spirit Pub Company Limited (represented by Piers Warne of TLT

Solicitors). The PLH has applied to remove and replace conditions 16 and 17

of the current premises licence as per pages 2-6 of the report bundle.

Representations have been received by the Environmental Health Service

(Mr Dave Nevitt) and four representations received by interested parties,

in attendance today are Lydia Del Maestro and Robert Del Maestro who are

represented by Mr Richard Brown of Westminster’s licensing project. The

Premises is situated within the Knightsbridge and Belgravia Ward and

does not fall within any area of cumulative impact area.

 

Mr Warne appearing on behalf of the PLH addressed the Sub-Committee.

He advised that the two conditions relate to the use of the external area:

Condition 16 relates to Customers going outside cannot take their drinks with

them after 21:00 and the PLH would like this to be extended for an hour until

22:00. Condition 17requires there to be door staff on the premises from 17:00

every Thursday and Friday and the PLH would like Mr Philip Ashley, the

General Manager to be able to risk assess whether door staff are necessary.

 

Mr Warne advised that  conditions were added following a review of the

Premises in 2013. They were appropriate and proportionate at the time,

however, the management was very different back then. He advised that the

premises licence is still in the name of Spirit but is owned by Greene King.

Mr Warne said that the company has very robust headquarters and good

management practices which is seen reflected on page 9 of the Agenda

Report. He said that Mr Ashley has been at the Premises since 2019.

 

Mr Warne stated that pre Covid on Thursday and Friday nights were very busy and usually had a doorman on duty these nights. However, Post Covid numbers are down and much lower. Mr Warne said that currently the business is paying in excess of £9,000 for SIA door licensed staff and that person in reality has very little to do. He advised that this specific role can be done and managed just as easy with a member of staff from the Premises.

 

Mr Warne said that inso far as the Representations were concerned a draft

management plan has been provided in respect of the outside area which

sets out the processes discussed to manage the Premises. 

 

It will include the following:-

 

·       Plastic cups and cigarettes are not used by the Premises. 

·       The PLH has a licence with the management company that manage the court to allow our customers to use the area down the side of the Premises.

·       Regarding the additional hour customer numbers drop off at 21:00 hours so we are only looking at a small increase.

·       The premises next door which operates as a Restaurant has an outside area that closes later.

·       There have been no complaints of noise from local residents.

 

In answer to questions from the Sub-Committee Mr Warne advised that the

current managements arrangements have been in place since 2016.Mr Ashby

has been in post since 2019 but the Premises closed in March 2020 due to

Covid. Mr Warne confirmed that Mr Ashy was at the Premises for the first

summer so he knew when the busy nights were. There havebeen no

recorded complaints and tables are not placed on the outside area.However,

there are barriers where  customers can stand. He advised that tables and

chairsare only put out on a Monday and Tuesdays as these are quiet nights

for the business.

 

In answer to questions from the Sub-Committee Mr Warne confirmed further that there has been a continuation of management since 2016 and that the majority of time Mr Ashby was at the Premises until June 2019 when the Premises closed in March 2020.

 

Mr Warne stated that in terms of tables and chairs and the management of vertical drinking especially as the Premises wants to stay open later it was confirmed that there are regular collection of glasses by staff (as required by the management plan) and customers are managed to ensure they are kept within the roped area and encouraged to keep noise levels down so as not to cause a nuisance to local residents.

 

The Sub-Committee sought confirmation that if it were minded granting the application what bedded management practices would be in place if Mr Ashby were to leave the PLH’s employ. Mr Coombs confirmed that he was the area manager of the Area, If Mr Ashby were to leave, we effectively would oversee the area. If anyone is on holiday, we know what conditions are on the licence. We then make sure everyone is up to speed with what needs to be done.

Mr Warne advised that Greene King has a significant number of pubs in Westminster. If the General Manager called in sick and was away then someone can be called in to cover very quickly so we have the necessary back up arrangements in place. He advised that the point of the risk assessment is a way to reacting quickly to situations.

 

The-Sub-Committee sought confirmation as to what was is involved in the risk assessment? Mr Warne advised that to risk assess door staff numbers a risk criteria is adopted. This includes whether it’s a busy night, there’s an event going on and weather conditions for example if its sunny etc it’s about looking at the number of staff required. In terms of an SIA being able to turn up at short notice Mr Warne advised that the management have a dedicated National door staff company that it uses that can be provided on a certain day by a simple telephone call. If for example there were to be a protest march in the area they can be called straight away. 

 

Mr Warne confirmed that the outside area is swept both in the mornings and evenings once the Premise closes where cigarette buts are collected as well as plastic cups.

 

The Sub-Committee queried if business goes what will happen to the Premises. In reply, Mr Warne said that2013 is a good example of what happened. Effectively if things go wrong, a review can be brought. The conditions were added as the management of the Premises become poor. He commented that the situation has now changed, and the management is different. If circumstances change, there will be a steady increase.

 

The Sub-Committee noted that Mondays are extremely quiet for the Premises with Thursday being a busy period. Mr Warne advised that in relation to alcohol sales he said that on Thursday of last week between 17:00-20:00 69 drinks were sold which was 26% down compared to 2019. He advised For the Friday 224 drinks were sold and that was a 70% reduction.

 

Mr Warne said in conclusion that there are many pubs in the area that provide a more lively environment. He said that the PLH had listened very carefully to the concerns raised and wanted to add that the Premises now operated differently to what it was before, Wednesdays are now one of its busiest nights and that there have been no complaints.

 

Mr Dave Nevitt appearing on behalf of EHS addressed the Sub-Committee. He said that there is no surprise that this Premises was reviewed 10 years ago as the pictures show patrons congregating on the street causing noise. Mr Nevitt said that the concern would be what will stop it going back to what it was. He said that often certain types of drink led premises become popular and that brings with it problems.

 

He advised that the area is a very narrow strip of frontage where barriers fence in customers and there should be no problem with knowing where the demise is between Council highway and their area. Patrons can put drinks on the shelves attached to the exterior wall which reduces the likelihood of putting drinks on the floor.

 

Mr Nevitt said that the Premises was a traditional pub and does not operate as a sports and football bar. There have been no problems in recent years. He stated that former operators had operated the Premises in a different way which led to problems in terms of noise and nuisance.  In terms of the premises plans there is nothing on the plans to show the demarked area.  In terms of risk assessing, he said that the Environmental Health Service are happy for the PLH to do this. Mr Nevitt confirmed at this stage he did not think SIA door staff is necessary.

 

Mr Brown appearing on behalf of residents addressed the Sub-Committee. Mr Brown stated that Ms Del Maestrolives 2 doors down and has lived there for 60 years. The bedroom and living room overlook the outside area of the pub. Ms Del Maestro had to put up with the nuisance prior to the review for many years. There was a lot of mediation with the Council prior to the review. Conditions 16 and 17 are the key conditions working in tandem which are why matters have improved. We say 20 people outside the pub without those conditions will cause a nuisance. We say the situation has improved due to these conditions.

 

Mr Brown said regarding the management plan submitted he is of the opinion that it does not really take the matter further other than setting out what the conditions are and what the approach is at the moment. He said the residents do not agree with the risk assessment

 

Ms Del Maestro addressed the Sub-Committee. She said that theevenings were very noisy and that she fought hard back in 2013 at the time of the review to get the hours reduced to 21:00 and it worked, now taking it back to 22:00 will cause the same problems. The external barrier helps as otherwise it causes congestion on the pavement. Ms Del Maestro said that she had nothing against pubs, it is just the way they conduct themselves and are managed.

 

In response to the questions from the Sub-Committee Mr Brown confirmed that in relation to a condition regarding door staff and a terminal hour of 21:00 he felt that both conditions work together as a pair.The hour of 21:00 and the busy day’s work in tandem.

 

Mr Brown said in terms of the numbers outside 20 people in the front is cosy however, problems can still arise with a further 20 people to the side of the Premises which could prove difficult. 

 

Mr Warne said that in his view restricting the outside area to specific numbers can causeproblems unless the exact numbers of people were counted. 

 

Mr Horatio Chance the Legal Advisor to the Sub-Committee suggested a condition regarding the outside management plan with the total number of people not exceeding 40 permitted and that the Premises plan was to be either hatched/coloured which was confirmed to be acceptable by Mr Warne. However, in terms of numbers, Mr Warne said that it was not that easy to deal with these numbers with a small pub. He went further onto say that the Premises would need some flexibility for people coming in and out.

 

Mr Brown said that the Management plan condition is not sufficient enough to mitigate the risks nor is the condition restricting numbers in the outside areas of the Premises as this is still too many people.

 

Conclusion

 

The Sub-Committee realises that it has a duty to consider each application on its individual merits and did so when determining this application. There is no policy presumption to refuse the application. The Sub-Committee noted that this was a variation of a premises licence to vary two conditions namely Conditions 16 and 17 relating to the relaxation of operating hours by adding an additional hour and the requirement for SIA door staff to be risk assessed.

 

The Sub-Committee having carefully considered the evidence decided to grant the variation in part. Based on the evidence, the Sub-Committee decided to retain condition 16 as the extra hour will likely have a detrimental effect on public nuisance so that part of the variation application was refused. In relation to condition, 17 the Sub-committee concluded that the PLH was to be a responsible operator when it came to patrons drinking outside and any problems associated with public nuisance. The Sub-Committee considered it appropriate and proportionate to modify the condition in accordance with the suggested wording of the PLH.

 

The Sub-Committee took comfort from the fact that the PLH has the necessary safeguards and processes in place to comply with this condition and that no complaints had been made. The Sub-Committee noted the concerns of the residents relating to the outside space and on that basis decided to limit the number of patrons using that space to a maximum of 30 at any one time. The Sub-Committee welcomed the outside area management plan and has decided to impose a management plan condition on the licence.

 

In terms of the conditions retained on the Premises Licence condition 16 is retained as drafted. Condition 17 is modified and the outside area is to be conditioned by reference to a management plan which will future proof the premises licence going forward.  

 

Having carefully considered the committee papers and the submissions made by all parties, both orally and in writing, the Committee had decided, after taking into account all the individual circumstances of this case and the promotion of the four licensing objectives:

 

1.        To refuse permission to remove and modify Condition 16 on the Premises Licence.

 

2.        That Condition 17 is hereby modified accordingly and thereafter remains on the Premises Licence in full force and effect.

 

3.        That the Premises Licence Holder is to provide the Licensing Authority with the minimum of delay a revised Premises Plan demarking the front outside areas by reference to the relevant hatching. 

 

4.        That a new Condition as specified below as Condition 23 is imposed on the licence requiring the Premises Licence Holder to limit the number of patrons using the front outside areas to 30 patrons at any one time.

 

5.        That a new Condition as specified below as Condition 24 is imposed on the licence requiring the Premises Licence Holder to implement and always operate an outside management plan to include the supervision and management of all patrons using the front outside areas of the Premises.

 

6.        To add conditions in the terms specified below.

7.        That the varied licence is subject to any relevant mandatory conditions.

8.      That the existing conditions on the licence shall apply in all respects except in so far as they are varied by this Decision.

 

9.        That the varied licence is subject to the following additional conditions imposed by the Committee which are considered appropriate and proportionate to promote the licensing objectives.

 

Conditions imposed by the Committee after a licensing hearing

 

10.      The permitted hours for the sale by retail of alcohol are:

(a) Monday to Thursday 10:00 to 23:30

(b) Friday to Saturday 10:00 to 00:00

(c) Sunday - 12:00 to 22:30

NOTE - The above restrictions do not prohibit:

(a) the sale or supply of alcohol to or the consumption of alcohol by any person residing in the licensed premises;

(b) the ordering of alcohol to be consumed off the premises, or the despatch by the vendor of the alcohol so ordered;

(c) the sale of alcohol to a trader or registered club for the purposes of the trade or club;

(d) the sale or supply of alcohol to any canteen or mess, being a canteen in which the sale or supply of alcohol is carried out under the authority of the Secretary of State or an authorised mess of members of Her Majesty's naval, military or air forces;

(e) the taking of alcohol from the premises by a person residing there;

(f) the supply of alcohol for consumption on the premises to any private friends of a person residing there who are bona fide entertained by him at his own expense, or the consumption of alcohol by persons so supplied;

(g) the supply of alcohol for consumption on the premises to persons employed there for the purposes of the business carried on by the holder of the licence, or

the consumption of liquor so supplied, if the liquor is supplied at the expense of their employer or of the person carrying on or in charge of the business on the premises.

In this condition, any reference to a person residing in the premises shall be construed as including a person not residing there but carrying on or in charge of the business on the premises.

 

11.      Regulated Entertainment in the form of live music is limited to two performers only.

 

12.      The terminal hour for sale/supply of alcohol, regulated entertainment and late night refreshment is extended by one hour on St David's Day, St Patrick's Day, St George's Day and St Andrew's Day with 10 day’s notice to be given to the Metropolitan Police Service and the Licensing Department of Westminster City Council. The Police to have veto over any event.

 

13.      The terminal for sale and of alcohol, regulated entertainment and late night refreshment may be extended by one hour on statutory bank holiday weekends (Friday to Monday), the Thursday before Good Friday and Christmas Eve with ten day’s notice to be given to the Metropolitan Police Service and the Licensing Department of Westminster City Council. The Police to have veto over any event.

 

14.      All children on the premises to be accompanied by an adult, to be on the premises for the purpose of a meal and to have vacated the premises by 9.30pm.

 

15.      When payment is made by credit or debit card, customer is to be presented with an itemised bill showing the details of all alcoholic drinks purchased.

 

16.      After 21:00 hours, patrons permitted to temporarily leave and then re-enter the premises, e.g. to smoke, shall not be permitted to take drinks or glass containers with them.

 

17.      A risk assessment will be undertaken when customers are drinking outside. If identified via the risk assessment a licensed door supervisor will be on duty on Thursday and Friday evenings, door supervisor’s duties shall include monitoring the behaviour of customers outside the premises and ensuring that the pavement remains clear for pedestrians.

 

18.      The Premises Licence Holder shall ensure that the outside of the premises is managed so as to ensure that the pavement is not blocked, there is no public nuisance caused to local residents and patrons are prevented from spreading to areas outside neighbouring premises.

 

19.      Notices shall be prominently displayed at all exits requesting patrons to respect the needs of local residents and businesses and leave the area quietly.

 

20.      Notices shall be prominently displayed at any area used for smoking requesting patrons to respects the needs of local residents and use the area quietly.

 

21.      No noise shall emanate from the premises nor vibration be transmitted through the structure of the premises which give rise to a nuisance.

 

22.      The pavement from the building line to the kerb edge immediately outside the premises, including gutter/channel at its junction with the kern edge, shall be swept and or washed daily, and litter and sweeping collected.

 

23.      Notwithstanding Condition 18 above the Premises Licence Holder shall ensure that the front outside areas shown hatched on the premises plan are  limited to 30 patrons at any one time excluding staff.

 

24.      The Premises Licence Holder shall implement and operate an outside area management plan to include the supervision and management of patrons using the front outside areas of the premises which shall be kept updated from time to time. A copy of the management plan shall be provided to the Responsible Authorities upon request.

 

If any problems are experienced then a review of the licence can be made.

 

The is the Full Decision of the Licensing Sub-Committee which takes effect forthwith.

 

The Licensing Sub-Committee

28 July 2022